Ziona Greenwald writes:
A story in the Times Herald-Record, a Hudson Valley newspaper, features a handful of Hasidic women speaking out against the portrayal of their lifestyle in the much-talked about recent New York Magazine article.
The latter, for anyone who’s been away in Siberia or absent from this blog, focused on a young woman who fled the Satmar enclave of Kiryas Joel along with her young daughter, and is now fighting for custody. The woman, Gitty Grunwald, is now completely irreligious, and she had some pretty negative things to say about the Satmar, especially about the treatment of women.
So now, a Times Herald-Record reporter has found five Hasidic women willing to go on the record (pardon the pun) to condemn the New York Magazine article and defend their way of life. The talkback was apparently organized by Rachel Freier, a Hasidic female attorney from Boro Park—and the subject of a previous Herald-Record article—who has an office near the KJ community. (I wonder what sect Freier belongs to—she certainly can’t be Satmar if she is a practicing J.D.)
Unfortunately, the sample here is hardly large enough to represent a critical mass, and the article too short to provide much insight into the status of Hasidic women. Comments like “[e]verything written was a total distortion”—which may well be a fair statement—are too general to be able to set the public straight on specific misrepresentations.
It would have been fascinating to hear more from these women and from others inside KJ itself. Of course, even if KJ women would speak to the media, one would have to take their comments with a dose of salt. To revisit a comparison I made in an earlier piece, to the FLDS sect in Texas, could these women really speak freely (that is, without repercussion) and independently (that is, without coaching)?
Thursday, July 31, 2008
Non-Rape Equals Racism
Steven Plaut writes:
What was left of the academic reputation of the Hebrew University was demolished altogether July 30, 08. The reason was the arrest of the leftist professor of sociology who had been one of the theses advisors of that notorious thesis claiming that Jews are racists because Jewish soldiers do not rape Arab women.
In recent days, headlines have reported the stories of the Hebrew University president joining a call of endorsement for the activities of a far-leftist anti-Zionist group that claims Israel is an apartheid land, Arab students at the Hebrew University being arrested for membership in al-Qaeda, and a Hebrew University professor of pharmacy insisting on hiring a convicted terrorist to work in his chemistry lab. But these were relatively minor disgraces compared with that now infamous "rape thesis."
To remind you, a Hebrew University graduate student claimed in her thesis that the absence of any history of rapes of Arab women by Israeli soldiers proves that Jews are racists and oppressors, people who do not even regard Arab women as worthy of being sexually abused. The student at the Mount Scopus campus and her "research" were then awarded a university honor for these impressive "discoveries" by the "Shaine Center," a Hebrew University sociology "research" center dominated by far leftists. Nitzan had argued that abstaining from rape is just as inhumane and oppressive as "symptomatically raping" and in fact replaces it, because it just serves to reinforce the intolerance felt toward Arabs by Jewish soldiers. These racist soldiers think of Arabs as so inferior and horrid that they do not even feel a compulsion to rape them. While giving some shallow lip service to how the "question" of rape refusal is "very complex," Nitzan's own "answer" is quite simple and straightforward - it reflects Jewish racism against Arabs.
Israel, she claimed, is so racist and anti-Arab that abstaining from rape is part and parcel of its determination to enforce rigid "lines of division." She asserted that individual soldiers who refuse to rape represent an intentional policy of oppression roughly similar to when governments order mass rape, because in both cases the "policy" serves to subordinate and dehumanize the oppressed victim population. The thesis drew its "scientific" conclusions from interviews with 25 reserve soldiers, ages 23-32, who served as combat troops in the "occupied territories" during the intifada. None of the comments by any of these soldiers supports or provides any confirmation, even the most indirect, to any of the lunatic "conclusions" reached by Nitzan.
Facing a storm of public outrage, the president of Hebrew University, Prof. Menachem Magidor, and the Rector, Prof. Haim D. Rabinowitch, jointly issued an announcement defending the student and dismissing those who expressed outrage over the contents of the thesis.
The "Non-Rape as Racism" thesis was co-supervised by one Eyal Ben-Ari, a Hebrew University professor of sociology, who claims to know something about the sociology of the military. Ben-Ari is a far-leftist with a track record of turning out anti-Israel propaganda, such as claims that Israel is an ultra-militarist society, and much of his propaganda is misrepresented as scholarly research. The other co-supervisor of the rape thesis was Ben-Ari's co-author in a book about Israeli "militarism." Israeli feminist groups never had a word to say about that "thesis" nor about Ben-Ari's role in inventing the "No rape as Racism" hypothesis.
From his role in the rape thesis, it was already known that Ben-Ari had goofy ideas about sexual (mis-)behavior. But now it turns out that the ultra-feminist Israel-bashing professor of sociology practices what he preaches.
The very same Professor Eyal Ben-Ari was arrested yesterday for suspected rape and sexual abuse of his students, and arraigned before the Jerusalem magistrate's court. It seems that Ben-Ari made it a habit to condition giving nice grades to and getting research grants for his female students on their sleeping with him. He was clearly not being racist though, because he is the same guy who discovered the academic finding that raping proves you are not racist. The police claim Ben-Ari had been behaving thus for the past fifteen years! This was not the first Hebrew University professor arrested for sexual misbehavior.
The Jerusalem weekly "Yediot Yerushalayim" broke the story and claimed Ben-Ari routinely attacked his female students sexually and violently. It cited two students who claimed they had been violently raped by Ben-Ari. He is also accused of using university funds to take his female students on trips for sexual trysts. He purchased for one of them a vibrator and then submitted the bill for reimbursement to the Hebrew University's Shaine Center (the very same Center that granted an award to the "Non-Rape is Racism" thesis!).
While awaiting trial Ben-Ari is subject to a restraining order preventing him from entering the Hebrew University campus, as well as an order not to leave the country. The same ultra-feminists in Israel who insisted that an (unmarried) cabinet minister be indicted because he gave a French kiss to a woman in his office have yet to say a word about the behavior of this member of the Tenured Left.
Haaretz July 31, 2008 reports that female students in the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at the Hebrew University, which claims to specialize in feminism and social justice, allege that Ben-Ari is not the only tenured lecher in the department who abuses them sexually, and that these faculty members walk about boasting of their "conquests" of the PhD students. Strangely, the university authorities never looked into their behavior.
Ben-Ari had also served as a consultant to the Israeli army over the role of women in the military.
What was left of the academic reputation of the Hebrew University was demolished altogether July 30, 08. The reason was the arrest of the leftist professor of sociology who had been one of the theses advisors of that notorious thesis claiming that Jews are racists because Jewish soldiers do not rape Arab women.
In recent days, headlines have reported the stories of the Hebrew University president joining a call of endorsement for the activities of a far-leftist anti-Zionist group that claims Israel is an apartheid land, Arab students at the Hebrew University being arrested for membership in al-Qaeda, and a Hebrew University professor of pharmacy insisting on hiring a convicted terrorist to work in his chemistry lab. But these were relatively minor disgraces compared with that now infamous "rape thesis."
To remind you, a Hebrew University graduate student claimed in her thesis that the absence of any history of rapes of Arab women by Israeli soldiers proves that Jews are racists and oppressors, people who do not even regard Arab women as worthy of being sexually abused. The student at the Mount Scopus campus and her "research" were then awarded a university honor for these impressive "discoveries" by the "Shaine Center," a Hebrew University sociology "research" center dominated by far leftists. Nitzan had argued that abstaining from rape is just as inhumane and oppressive as "symptomatically raping" and in fact replaces it, because it just serves to reinforce the intolerance felt toward Arabs by Jewish soldiers. These racist soldiers think of Arabs as so inferior and horrid that they do not even feel a compulsion to rape them. While giving some shallow lip service to how the "question" of rape refusal is "very complex," Nitzan's own "answer" is quite simple and straightforward - it reflects Jewish racism against Arabs.
Israel, she claimed, is so racist and anti-Arab that abstaining from rape is part and parcel of its determination to enforce rigid "lines of division." She asserted that individual soldiers who refuse to rape represent an intentional policy of oppression roughly similar to when governments order mass rape, because in both cases the "policy" serves to subordinate and dehumanize the oppressed victim population. The thesis drew its "scientific" conclusions from interviews with 25 reserve soldiers, ages 23-32, who served as combat troops in the "occupied territories" during the intifada. None of the comments by any of these soldiers supports or provides any confirmation, even the most indirect, to any of the lunatic "conclusions" reached by Nitzan.
Facing a storm of public outrage, the president of Hebrew University, Prof. Menachem Magidor, and the Rector, Prof. Haim D. Rabinowitch, jointly issued an announcement defending the student and dismissing those who expressed outrage over the contents of the thesis.
The "Non-Rape as Racism" thesis was co-supervised by one Eyal Ben-Ari, a Hebrew University professor of sociology, who claims to know something about the sociology of the military. Ben-Ari is a far-leftist with a track record of turning out anti-Israel propaganda, such as claims that Israel is an ultra-militarist society, and much of his propaganda is misrepresented as scholarly research. The other co-supervisor of the rape thesis was Ben-Ari's co-author in a book about Israeli "militarism." Israeli feminist groups never had a word to say about that "thesis" nor about Ben-Ari's role in inventing the "No rape as Racism" hypothesis.
From his role in the rape thesis, it was already known that Ben-Ari had goofy ideas about sexual (mis-)behavior. But now it turns out that the ultra-feminist Israel-bashing professor of sociology practices what he preaches.
The very same Professor Eyal Ben-Ari was arrested yesterday for suspected rape and sexual abuse of his students, and arraigned before the Jerusalem magistrate's court. It seems that Ben-Ari made it a habit to condition giving nice grades to and getting research grants for his female students on their sleeping with him. He was clearly not being racist though, because he is the same guy who discovered the academic finding that raping proves you are not racist. The police claim Ben-Ari had been behaving thus for the past fifteen years! This was not the first Hebrew University professor arrested for sexual misbehavior.
The Jerusalem weekly "Yediot Yerushalayim" broke the story and claimed Ben-Ari routinely attacked his female students sexually and violently. It cited two students who claimed they had been violently raped by Ben-Ari. He is also accused of using university funds to take his female students on trips for sexual trysts. He purchased for one of them a vibrator and then submitted the bill for reimbursement to the Hebrew University's Shaine Center (the very same Center that granted an award to the "Non-Rape is Racism" thesis!).
While awaiting trial Ben-Ari is subject to a restraining order preventing him from entering the Hebrew University campus, as well as an order not to leave the country. The same ultra-feminists in Israel who insisted that an (unmarried) cabinet minister be indicted because he gave a French kiss to a woman in his office have yet to say a word about the behavior of this member of the Tenured Left.
Haaretz July 31, 2008 reports that female students in the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at the Hebrew University, which claims to specialize in feminism and social justice, allege that Ben-Ari is not the only tenured lecher in the department who abuses them sexually, and that these faculty members walk about boasting of their "conquests" of the PhD students. Strangely, the university authorities never looked into their behavior.
Ben-Ari had also served as a consultant to the Israeli army over the role of women in the military.
Tuesday, July 22, 2008
10,000 Feet Above Salt Lake City
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 On the plane back to Los Angeles, I recap my weekend with Marc Gafni in Salt Lake City and Torrey Utah. We spent about eight hours on the road exchanging Torah and singing duets.
Luke Ford: Raindrops Are Falling On My Head
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 I sing songs with Marc Gafni. We're 30 miles out from Salt Lake City. We're teaching Torah and eating up the miles. No video, only audio for first half of this. Silence of presence vs. silence of absence.
Closing In On Salt Lake City, Just Past Brigham Young University On I15
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Thunderstorms threaten. Where's BYU? We're closing in on civilization after a weekend in the desert with Rabbi Marc Gafni.
Driving Back To Salt Lake City From The Southern Utah Desert
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Lightning flashes. Rain pelts down. Marc Gafni drives I15 back to Salt Lake City under threatening skies after our weekend in Torrey, Utah. We talk about addiction, it's a vast industry in Utah and Arizona. Everything's a disease these days rather than a failure of moral will.
Our Abundant Choices - The Gift Of Therapy
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 I had two years of psycho-therapy. Through therapy I realized that given who I was, I couldn't have acted but as I did in the past. Some friendships can't be reclaimed but I can form new and better ones. My life overflows with possibilities.
Reclaiming Your Reputation Online: Luke Ford & Marc Gafni In Dialogue II
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 In Capitol Reef National Park, Luke and Marc discuss "The Future of Reputation: Gossip, Rumor, and Privacy on the Internet" -- a new book by Law Professor Daniel Solove. What can you do when people slander you? Should you act like a helpless victim?
Reclaiming Your Reputation Online: Luke Ford & Marc Gafni In Dialogue
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 In Capitol Reef National Park, Luke and Marc discuss "The Future of Reputation: Gossip, Rumor, and Privacy on the Internet" -- a new book by Law Professor Daniel Solove. What can you do when people slander you?
How To Defuse Anger
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 If somebody is mad at you, how do you calm them down? How do you turn the situation around? How do you defuse a ticking time bomb? What lessons can be learned? Own your past. Live in truth.
Take Charge Of Your Reputation Online!
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Don't be passive. Don't let others slander you! Silence implies consent, says the Talmud. Reach out to people who criticize you unfairly and inaccurately. Take them to lunch. Be real nice.
Luke Ford & Marc Gafni In Dialogue About Hate Speech Online III
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 In Capitol Reef National Park, Luke and Marc discuss "The Future of Reputation: Gossip, Rumor, and Privacy on the Internet" -- a new book by Law Professor Daniel Solove.
Luke Ford & Marc Gafni In Dialogue About Hate Speech Online II
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 In Capitol Reef National Park, Luke and Marc discuss "The Future of Reputation: Gossip, Rumor, and Privacy on the Internet" -- a new book by Law Professor Daniel Solove.
Luke Ford & Marc Gafni In Dialogue About Hate Speech Online
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 In Capitol Reef National Park, Luke and Marc discuss "The Future of Reputation: Gossip, Rumor, and Privacy on the Internet" -- a new book by Law Professor Daniel Solove.
Luke Ford in Capitol Reef National Park With Rabbi Marc Gafni II
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Torrey is the gateway to Capitol Reef National Park. It's an artist's colony. I say a blessing over the beauty of God's creation. It's Sunday and Marc Gafni and I are heading for Salt Lake City.
Luke Ford in Capitol Reef National Park With Rabbi Marc Gafni
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Torrey is the gateway to Capitol Reef National Park. It's an artist's colony. We discuss the blessing for the wonders of creation. We discuss how changing your name can change your destiny.
Monday, July 21, 2008
Luke Ford in Torrey, Utah With Rabbi Marc Gafni III
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Torrey is the gateway to Capitol Reef National Park. It's an artist's colony. There's a large rehab community around. Torrey is in Wayne County in the south central part of Utah eight miles from Capitol Reef National Park. The town was settled in the 1880 by Mormon pioneers.
Luke Ford in Torrey, Utah With Rabbi Marc Gafni II
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Torrey is the gateway to Capitol Reef National Park. It's an artist's colony. There's a large rehab community around. Torrey is in Wayne County in the south central part of Utah eight miles from Capitol Reef National Park. The town was settled in the 1880 by Mormon pioneers.
Luke Ford in Torrey, Utah With Rabbi Marc Gafni
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 Torrey is the gateway to Capitol Reef National Park. It's an artist's colony. There's a large rehab community around. Torrey is in Wayne County in the south central part of Utah eight miles from Capitol Reef National Park. The town was settled in the 1880 by Mormon pioneers.
Celebrating The Penitent - Judaism Vs Christianity
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 In Christianity, sinners who come to Christ get celebrated. The bigger the sinner, the bigger the celebration. 'I was a hooker and I smoked crack and I murdered three people but now I've found Jesus...'
How Does One Get Motivated To Study Talmud?
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 How can one spend three years studying kosher kitchens? I'm not able to study things I can't excited about. Where's the inspiration in studying the minute legal matters of the Talmud? God is in the details.
Why Do People Get Sick?
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 David Klinghoffer says the Biblical perspective on sickness is that you should examine your character to see where you have gone wrong. The Bible always portrays doctors negatively.
Luke Ford in the Utah Desert Hits The Open Road With Rabbi Marc Gafni
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 After flying from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City July 18, 2008, I drive over three hours into the Southern Utah desert with Marc Winiarz and discuss Torah and the meaning of life and travel.
Sunday, July 20, 2008
Luke Ford in the Utah Desert With Rabbi Marc Gafni
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 After flying from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City July 18, 2008, I drive over three hours into the Southern Utah desert with Marc Winiarz and discuss Torah and the meaning of life and travel.
Kyle Volkman of the Shook Twins
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3486 On the plane from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City July 18, 2008, I interview a musician who accompanies the Shook Twins (ShookTwins.com).
Legalize It, Don't Criticize It
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3487 Legalize it Don’t criticize it Legalize it, yeah, yeah And I will advertise it Some call it tamjee Some call it the weed Some call it Marijuana Some of them call it Ganja Nevermind, got to legalize it Don’t criticize it Legalize it, yeah, yeah And I will advertise it Singers smoke it
Tuesday, July 15, 2008
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008 VII
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008 VIII
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008 VI
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008 V
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008 IV
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008 III
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008 II
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
Natan Sharansky Speaks July 14, 2008
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3454 Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident, political prisoner, and human rights icon, has spent his life championing democracy and freedom. In 1977, he was arrested by the KGB and imprisoned for nine years for his activism and his support for Soviet Jews demands to emigrate to Israel.
My First Time At Delice Bistro
http://picorob.com/2008/07/13/dinner-at-delice-bistro/ It's the best kosher restaurant in Los Angeles. http://www.delicebistro.com. Julien Bohbot, the owner, whose dream always was to open a French Bakery - and now a French Bistro -, is an active real estate agent with Coldwell-Banker for 20 years. Originally from Morocco, he finished his studies in Restaurant Business in Paris France.
Monday, July 14, 2008
I Love The New British Movie 'Sixty Six'
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3409 Based on the real life experience of director Paul Weiland , SIXTY SIX is a coming-of-age comedy starring Eddie Marsan (Mission Impossible III , Vera Drake) , Helena Bonham Carter , Stephen Rea , Catherine Tate , Peter Serafinowicz (Shaun Of The Dead) , Geraldine Somerville , Richard Katz , Ben Newton and Gregg Sulkin.
Friday, July 11, 2008
Israel Advocacy Or Israel Education? II
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3436 Contending with the declining engagement with Israel among the members of the Jewish community in the United States today. Cohen mourns the consensus nature of American Jews' attitude towards Israel and yearns for the more divisive days of old.
Israel Advocacy Or Israel Education?
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3436 Contending with the declining engagement with Israel among the members of the Jewish community in the United States today. Cohen mourns the consensus nature of American Jews' attitude towards Israel and yearns for the more divisive days of old.
Sociologist Steven M. Cohen On Patterns Of Jewish Identity III
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3436 Jews in their twenties and thirties are launching new expressions of their Jewish engagement with new spiritual communities, online, social justice, culture, and Jewish learning. What are the implications for the future of American Judaism?
Sociologist Steven M. Cohen On Patterns Of Jewish Identity II
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3436 Jews in their twenties and thirties are launching new expressions of their Jewish engagement with new spiritual communities, online, social justice, culture, and Jewish learning. What are the implications for the future of American Judaism?
Sociologist Steven M. Cohen On Patterns Of Jewish Identity
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3436 Jews in their twenties and thirties are launching new expressions of their Jewish engagement with new spiritual communities, online, social justice, culture, and Jewish learning. What are the implications for the future of American Judaism?
Wednesday, July 09, 2008
I'm Flailing
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3393 I'm 42 and I feel like I'm drowning. I'm flailing about trying to create a good life for myself. I feel like I'm constantly learning new things and most everything feels awkward to me. I guess this is good.
Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Rabbi Mordecai Gafni aka Marc Winiarz V
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3393 It's my first time in Utah. July 3, 2008, I fly to Salt Lake City to interview the controversial author and spiritual teacher. Gafni started out as an Orthodox rabbi.
Rabbi Mordecai Gafni aka Marc Winiarz XII
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3393 It's my first time in Utah. July 3, 2008, I fly to Salt Lake City to interview the controversial author and spiritual teacher. Gafni started out as an Orthodox rabbi.
Monday, July 07, 2008
Rabbi Mordecai Gafni aka Marc Winiarz XIV
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3393 It's my first time in Utah. July 3, 2008, I fly to Salt Lake City to interview the controversial author and spiritual teacher. Gafni started out as an Orthodox rabbi.
Rabbi Mordecai Gafni aka Marc Winiarz XIII
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3393 It's my first time in Utah. July 3, 2008, I fly to Salt Lake City to interview the controversial author and spiritual teacher. Gafni started out as an Orthodox rabbi.
Rabbi Mordecai Gafni aka Marc Winiarz XI
http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=3393 It's my first time in Utah. July 3, 2008, I fly to Salt Lake City to interview the controversial author and spiritual teacher. Gafni started out as an Orthodox rabbi.
Talking During Davening - Why Do People Do It?
Rabbi Gil Student writes:
I'm always bothered by talking in shul but I try to remind myself that people need time to socialize and many people are not able to see their friends other than in shul. But I just wish people would confine their talking to the times during davening when they are halakhically permitted to talk.
What really irks me is when people finish their silent prayers before me and start talking to each other. Guess what? In an otherwise silent synagogue, the one person who whispers is heard far and wide. I find it very disturbing to my concentration.
Click here to read moreI once had an argument with a friend about why people do this. He thinks it is because they don't truly appreciate the power of prayer to connect man and God. I disagree. They are done praying and I think that they talk because they are self-absorbed. They don't care about their fellow synagogue members who are still praying.
As an aside, I often hear Orthodox people wondering why in Orthodox synagogues people talk much more than in Heterodox synagogues. The common self-flattering explanation is that Orthodox Jews are in synagogues so often that we feel more comfortable there. I'm not so sure that is the real explanation. Jews learn from the first time they enter a synagogues what is allowed and what is not. For about 200 years, reform-minded synagogues have tried to enforce decorum while more traditional synagogues have made a point of not enforcing decorum (with plenty staking territory in between). I think that the decorum in Heterodox synagogues is something that has been consciously planned and successfully instilled, with some positive and some negative consequences.
But back to the point, when I was spending Shabbos with R. Dovid Gottlieb in Baltimore two weeks ago, I was randomly thinking about talking in shul over my morning cup of coffee (before services, and not because of anything I witnessed the night before). The Gemara (Berakhos 24b) states that someone who prays (shemoneh esreh) loudly is lacking in faith, which Rashi explains is because he implies that God can't hear a silent prayer. The Gemara qualifies this that if someone can only concentrate when praying loudly then he may do so, but not in synagogues because that will disturb others. In other words, there are two concerns: showing a lack of faith and disturbing others. Your personal lack of concentration can override the implication of a lack of faith but cannot override disturbing others. What qualifies as disturbing others?
I'm always bothered by talking in shul but I try to remind myself that people need time to socialize and many people are not able to see their friends other than in shul. But I just wish people would confine their talking to the times during davening when they are halakhically permitted to talk.
What really irks me is when people finish their silent prayers before me and start talking to each other. Guess what? In an otherwise silent synagogue, the one person who whispers is heard far and wide. I find it very disturbing to my concentration.
Click here to read moreI once had an argument with a friend about why people do this. He thinks it is because they don't truly appreciate the power of prayer to connect man and God. I disagree. They are done praying and I think that they talk because they are self-absorbed. They don't care about their fellow synagogue members who are still praying.
As an aside, I often hear Orthodox people wondering why in Orthodox synagogues people talk much more than in Heterodox synagogues. The common self-flattering explanation is that Orthodox Jews are in synagogues so often that we feel more comfortable there. I'm not so sure that is the real explanation. Jews learn from the first time they enter a synagogues what is allowed and what is not. For about 200 years, reform-minded synagogues have tried to enforce decorum while more traditional synagogues have made a point of not enforcing decorum (with plenty staking territory in between). I think that the decorum in Heterodox synagogues is something that has been consciously planned and successfully instilled, with some positive and some negative consequences.
But back to the point, when I was spending Shabbos with R. Dovid Gottlieb in Baltimore two weeks ago, I was randomly thinking about talking in shul over my morning cup of coffee (before services, and not because of anything I witnessed the night before). The Gemara (Berakhos 24b) states that someone who prays (shemoneh esreh) loudly is lacking in faith, which Rashi explains is because he implies that God can't hear a silent prayer. The Gemara qualifies this that if someone can only concentrate when praying loudly then he may do so, but not in synagogues because that will disturb others. In other words, there are two concerns: showing a lack of faith and disturbing others. Your personal lack of concentration can override the implication of a lack of faith but cannot override disturbing others. What qualifies as disturbing others?
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